|
|
Post by Shani on Mar 2, 2010 21:59:07 GMT -5
Hey all,
Here is the timeline question. What storyline would you like to see us follow?
After TLK at the beginning of TLK2: Simba is the King, Kiara has just been presented, Kovu is being groomed for the kill. Perhaps Kiara could have a brother or even a sister? The possibilities are endless.
Somewhere in the middle of TLK2: Kiara and Kovu are still cubs, or perhaps now teenagers, maybe they have yet to meet. Will they fall in love? Maybe Kovu even succeeds in Zira's plan to kill Simba.
After the credits roll on TLK2: A lot can be done with this. Simba may have passed on, or retired leaving Kiara and Kovu as the rulers. Maybe the four of them rule together for a time, until Simba and Nala pass the torch on. Anything may be possible.
Remember, these are simply ideas, please add your own or maybe you have an idea for which way the story will go. This is the place for it all!
|
|
|
|
Post by Kopa on Mar 4, 2010 10:22:11 GMT -5
I'd say beginning of TLK II, myself, that gives us the most characters to play around with and annoys the least amount of people by rendering their favorite characters possibly 'out of play'.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sinyaa | Zira on Mar 4, 2010 10:28:34 GMT -5
I'd say beginning of TLK II, myself, that gives us the most characters to play around with and annoys the least amount of people by rendering their favorite characters possibly 'out of play'. After some thought, I'm starting to lean towards an after TLK1/before TLK2 setting as well -- /everyone's/ seen the first movie, but the second movie isn't as common knowledge, so it's a probably a good springboard point to start with. Plus, it gives us the most time to involve to the most film characters. So long as we're just letting things play out as things happen, without necessarily following the same TLK2 script, of course. |
|
|
|
Post by Kopa on Mar 6, 2010 4:02:52 GMT -5
I'd say beginning of TLK II, myself, that gives us the most characters to play around with and annoys the least amount of people by rendering their favorite characters possibly 'out of play'. After some thought, I'm starting to lean towards an after TLK1/before TLK2 setting as well -- /everyone's/ seen the first movie, but the second movie isn't as common knowledge, so it's a probably a good springboard point to start with. Plus, it gives us the most time to involve to the most film characters. So long as we're just letting things play out as things happen, without necessarily following the same TLK2 script, of course. Exactly, I think it gives us the most freedom and I think there are a lot of avenues that could've been explored in TLK II that weren't for various reasons. Kopa's a good example, it's a little hard to believe that two generations in a row the King and Queen only had one cub, especially after knowing how easily things can be thrown off balance if said cub is killed or vanishes like Simba did. Other minor characters that might or might not play a role in the timeline might include Mheetu, Nala's younger brother in some of the early TLK storyboards and Meerkats from Timon's colony from TLK 1 1/2. Things like that give us a more open hand in exploring how the hyenas, the Meerkat Colony and some of the other things that we 'know' exist but weren't really shown in TLK II have evolved since the end of TLK I. Would Zira follow Scar's path and seek an alliance with the hyenas again, considering the Outlands probably have some geographic connection with the Elephant Graveyard? _Would_ the hyenas even consider allying with a lion again after what happened with Scar? Or would Zira mercilessly hunt them and war with them for killing her mate? How would the fallout from all of this affect the Pridelands? Another thing to consider is what happened during the time between TLK and TLK II, exactly what did Zira do to get exiled aside from following Scar? Was it self-imposed or did she attempt a coup? Also, how long did it take for the Pridelands to regenerate, did the Pride Rock Pride stay in the blasted, grayish lands and eke out a living as best they could until it turned green again or did they seek solace in the jungle while the lands grew back as in some early fanfiction? That could link into Zira's exile, it could be she had tried to snatch up the Pridelands while Simba was away and was exiled for it. Naturally, this all depends on who plays what characters and what they want to do with them. Personally, I'd like things to play out in a more organic fashion. I'd rather not be slaved to a pre-existing plot where we're like 'What day is it? Thursday, okay, Kiara, this is where you meet Kovu at the Outlands border.' 'Hmmm, Kiara's and adolescent now, time for Kovu/Kiara meeting Mk II.' or 'Okay, Kovu and Kiara are adults, Simba and Nala, you're outta here or are forced to co-rule.' |
|
|
|
Post by Shani on Mar 6, 2010 19:44:02 GMT -5
After some thought, I'm starting to lean towards an after TLK1/before TLK2 setting as well -- /everyone's/ seen the first movie, but the second movie isn't as common knowledge, so it's a probably a good springboard point to start with. Plus, it gives us the most time to involve to the most film characters. So long as we're just letting things play out as things happen, without necessarily following the same TLK2 script, of course. Exactly, I think it gives us the most freedom and I think there are a lot of avenues that could've been explored in TLK II that weren't for various reasons. Kopa's a good example, it's a little hard to believe that two generations in a row the King and Queen only had one cub, especially after knowing how easily things can be thrown off balance if said cub is killed or vanishes like Simba did. Other minor characters that might or might not play a role in the timeline might include Mheetu, Nala's younger brother in some of the early TLK storyboards and Meerkats from Timon's colony from TLK 1 1/2. Things like that give us a more open hand in exploring how the hyenas, the Meerkat Colony and some of the other things that we 'know' exist but weren't really shown in TLK II have evolved since the end of TLK I. Would Zira follow Scar's path and seek an alliance with the hyenas again, considering the Outlands probably have some geographic connection with the Elephant Graveyard? _Would_ the hyenas even consider allying with a lion again after what happened with Scar? Or would Zira mercilessly hunt them and war with them for killing her mate? How would the fallout from all of this affect the Pridelands? Another thing to consider is what happened during the time between TLK and TLK II, exactly what did Zira do to get exiled aside from following Scar? Was it self-imposed or did she attempt a coup? Also, how long did it take for the Pridelands to regenerate, did the Pride Rock Pride stay in the blasted, grayish lands and eke out a living as best they could until it turned green again or did they seek solace in the jungle while the lands grew back as in some early fanfiction? That could link into Zira's exile, it could be she had tried to snatch up the Pridelands while Simba was away and was exiled for it. Naturally, this all depends on who plays what characters and what they want to do with them. Personally, I'd like things to play out in a more organic fashion. I'd rather not be slaved to a pre-existing plot where we're like 'What day is it? Thursday, okay, Kiara, this is where you meet Kovu at the Outlands border.' 'Hmmm, Kiara's and adolescent now, time for Kovu/Kiara meeting Mk II.' or 'Okay, Kovu and Kiara are adults, Simba and Nala, you're outta here or are forced to co-rule.' I agree and unlike the first movie, TLK2 hasn't been overdone MUCKwise. Plus there are many ways that the plotline can go and while some things from the movies need to be followed, for the most part we go in any direction we like, and we can add in ideas that were for some reason not used, such as having Kovu be Scar's son as was originally intended. I like adding the ideas of Nala's brother, Simba and Nala's son and bringing in Timon's tribe. There was even talk of Zazu having a girlfriend. I have always felt that Zira did something very nasty to get herself and her children exiled, either by killing Simba's firstborn cub (I feel that Kiara is not the cub seen at the end of TLK, there are differences in their manners and appearances), or she killed Sarabi and/or Sarafina to get even for Scar's death. Whatever it was she did, it cost her dearly. Beginning at at start of TLK2 seems to be the winner so far, but I think I'll keep it open for the remainder of the weekend, just to let anyone else who joins have a say. |
|
|
|
Post by Kopa on Mar 6, 2010 20:04:55 GMT -5
Exactly, I think it gives us the most freedom and I think there are a lot of avenues that could've been explored in TLK II that weren't for various reasons. Kopa's a good example, it's a little hard to believe that two generations in a row the King and Queen only had one cub, especially after knowing how easily things can be thrown off balance if said cub is killed or vanishes like Simba did. Other minor characters that might or might not play a role in the timeline might include Mheetu, Nala's younger brother in some of the early TLK storyboards and Meerkats from Timon's colony from TLK 1 1/2. Things like that give us a more open hand in exploring how the hyenas, the Meerkat Colony and some of the other things that we 'know' exist but weren't really shown in TLK II have evolved since the end of TLK I. Would Zira follow Scar's path and seek an alliance with the hyenas again, considering the Outlands probably have some geographic connection with the Elephant Graveyard? _Would_ the hyenas even consider allying with a lion again after what happened with Scar? Or would Zira mercilessly hunt them and war with them for killing her mate? How would the fallout from all of this affect the Pridelands? Another thing to consider is what happened during the time between TLK and TLK II, exactly what did Zira do to get exiled aside from following Scar? Was it self-imposed or did she attempt a coup? Also, how long did it take for the Pridelands to regenerate, did the Pride Rock Pride stay in the blasted, grayish lands and eke out a living as best they could until it turned green again or did they seek solace in the jungle while the lands grew back as in some early fanfiction? That could link into Zira's exile, it could be she had tried to snatch up the Pridelands while Simba was away and was exiled for it. Naturally, this all depends on who plays what characters and what they want to do with them. Personally, I'd like things to play out in a more organic fashion. I'd rather not be slaved to a pre-existing plot where we're like 'What day is it? Thursday, okay, Kiara, this is where you meet Kovu at the Outlands border.' 'Hmmm, Kiara's and adolescent now, time for Kovu/Kiara meeting Mk II.' or 'Okay, Kovu and Kiara are adults, Simba and Nala, you're outta here or are forced to co-rule.' I agree and unlike the first movie, TLK2 hasn't been overdone MUCKwise. Plus there are many ways that the plotline can go and while some things from the movies need to be followed, for the most part we go in any direction we like, and we can add in ideas that were for some reason not used, such as having Kovu be Scar's son as was originally intended. I like adding the ideas of Nala's brother, Simba and Nala's son and bringing in Timon's tribe. There was even talk of Zazu having a girlfriend. I have always felt that Zira did something very nasty to get herself and her children exiled, either by killing Simba's firstborn cub (I feel that Kiara is not the cub seen at the end of TLK, there are differences in their manners and appearances), or she killed Sarabi and/or Sarafina to get even for Scar's death. Whatever it was she did, it cost her dearly. Beginning at at start of TLK2 seems to be the winner so far, but I think I'll keep it open for the remainder of the weekend, just to let anyone else who joins have a say. The Zira killing Simba and Nala's firstborn cub thing has always been a big theory. Whether that cub was Chaka, Kopa, or someone else not named isn't known, of course. The big problem I have with that theory is why would Kiara try to save her at the end if that was the case? Simba offered Scar exile, of course, but Kiara seemed interested in total reconcilliation, which doesn't make much sense to me. Not like that's here nor there, really. I do agree that the cub at the end of TLK and Kiara at TLK IIs beginning were different cubs, though. The Kovu being Scar's son thing was dropped by Disney because of the whole incest thing, with Kovu and Kiara being related if that was the case, not a big problem in lion prides, but a problem for puritanical people and kids. But I do agree it left a huge hole in the plot that was never explained. Zazu's girlfriend thing was dropped due to the change in his voice actor from what I heard and Sarabi was dropped due to the death of her actress. I believe we see Sarafina in TLK II, though, but I might be wrong. It's been awhile. In any case, we definitely don't lack for things to work with and add and its an avenue that hasn't been explored and hopefully will attract new players. |
|
|
|
Post by Shani on Mar 8, 2010 0:20:16 GMT -5
The Zira killing Simba and Nala's firstborn cub thing has always been a big theory. Whether that cub was Chaka, Kopa, or someone else not named isn't known, of course. The big problem I have with that theory is why would Kiara try to save her at the end if that was the case? Simba offered Scar exile, of course, but Kiara seemed interested in total reconcilliation, which doesn't make much sense to me. Not like that's here nor there, really. I do agree that the cub at the end of TLK and Kiara at TLK IIs beginning were different cubs, though. The Kovu being Scar's son thing was dropped by Disney because of the whole incest thing, with Kovu and Kiara being related if that was the case, not a big problem in lion prides, but a problem for puritanical people and kids. But I do agree it left a huge hole in the plot that was never explained. Zazu's girlfriend thing was dropped due to the change in his voice actor from what I heard and Sarabi was dropped due to the death of her actress. I believe we see Sarafina in TLK II, though, but I might be wrong. It's been awhile. In any case, we definitely don't lack for things to work with and add and its an avenue that hasn't been explored and hopefully will attract new players. *grins* I knew most of that, except for why Zazu's girl was dumped. I have never seen Sarafina in II and I have actually looked for her, bur some folks swear she's there. Why would Kiara offer Zira help if she had killed her brother? My guess would be that Kiara would probably have no memory of having a brother, and it's doubtful that Simba would even talk about what happened with her. It certainly explains the reason why he was so overprotective of her. The movie could have been much better had the writers taken more time is what I've heard and read and I tend to agree. Hopefully we'll be different enough to get people interested.  |
|
|
|
Post by Kopa on Mar 8, 2010 1:28:45 GMT -5
The Zira killing Simba and Nala's firstborn cub thing has always been a big theory. Whether that cub was Chaka, Kopa, or someone else not named isn't known, of course. The big problem I have with that theory is why would Kiara try to save her at the end if that was the case? Simba offered Scar exile, of course, but Kiara seemed interested in total reconcilliation, which doesn't make much sense to me. Not like that's here nor there, really. I do agree that the cub at the end of TLK and Kiara at TLK IIs beginning were different cubs, though. The Kovu being Scar's son thing was dropped by Disney because of the whole incest thing, with Kovu and Kiara being related if that was the case, not a big problem in lion prides, but a problem for puritanical people and kids. But I do agree it left a huge hole in the plot that was never explained. Zazu's girlfriend thing was dropped due to the change in his voice actor from what I heard and Sarabi was dropped due to the death of her actress. I believe we see Sarafina in TLK II, though, but I might be wrong. It's been awhile. In any case, we definitely don't lack for things to work with and add and its an avenue that hasn't been explored and hopefully will attract new players. *grins* I knew most of that, except for why Zazu's girl was dumped. I have never seen Sarafina in II and I have actually looked for her, bur some folks swear she's there. Why would Kiara offer Zira help if she had killed her brother? My guess would be that Kiara would probably have no memory of having a brother, and it's doubtful that Simba would even talk about what happened with her. It certainly explains the reason why he was so overprotective of her. The movie could have been much better had the writers taken more time is what I've heard and read and I tend to agree. Hopefully we'll be different enough to get people interested. Good point with Kiara, though you'd figure Simba or Nala would've at some point told her _something_ about why the Outlanders were exiled after she's seen hanging around with them and all that. I'm not sure if the Zazu thing is the exact reason but that's always what I'd heard. As for Sarafina, if memory serves you see Sarafina for maybe 1.5 seconds right when Kiara is growing up and she says something about her becoming very beautiful or something like that. I'm pretty sure Sarafina's listed in the credits, but like I said, it's been awhile since I've watched the movie. But, yeah, the movie could have been better, but I have a feeling that largely they were just trying to rake in money like Disney tends to do with it's direct-to-video sequels. |
|
|
|
Post by Sinyaa | Zira on Mar 8, 2010 1:39:47 GMT -5
Naturally, this all depends on who plays what characters and what they want to do with them. This pretty much sums up my thoughts entirely. As for Kovu/Vitani's father (since they more or less appear to be the same age), when I last played Zira, I had them as having a different father than Scar...but the TLK movies have never been very good with naming baby daddies (*cough*Nala*cough* >D). I also tend to agree with the fan-assumed idea of Zira having killed Kopa -- though, as we appear to have a Kopa, I certainly don't mind changing that concept for the purposes of the MUCK's plot. I think Zira might have just been so militantly in support of Scar's reign that she and her lionesses were banished out of pure fear of what she might do. The second film does have a few plot holes in it -- so let's work on patching those up through RP, yes? ;3 We will need to come to a consensus on what the initial setup will be at least, though, at some point...but this goes back to my first comment here, in seeing what the people playing prefer, but that of course requires more main FCs to be cast (Simba, Kovu, and Kiara in particular). I imagine we can just have a generic setup for the plot following the first film, and work out the devil in the details as we get more FCs cast. (Oh, and as for Sarafina, her voice actress has a single line in TLK2 as well -- "My, how you've grown." In regards to her and Sarabi, I suppose that what determines how much, if any, of a presence they have as elder lionesses is whether there is anyone interested in playing them or not.) |
|
|
|
Post by Kopa on Mar 8, 2010 8:00:24 GMT -5
Kovu and Vitani's father? Heh, I can see it now. Zira: You fool, Simba! Their yours! Simba: WHAT?! Zira: You don't remember that night? Oh, my shame! Nala: Simba...? Zira: Just kidding, fools, die! *ahem* Sorry, couldn't resist. As I pointed out in my email message to you, we can still have the Zira-as-cub-Murderer plot and keep Kopa and Kiara around. Back in the early drafts of TLK II Kiara had a brother around, I think the name was Chaka if memory serves. We could say that he was born shortly after the lands regenerated in TLK and he's the cub we see at the closing credits and that Zira eventually pulls her coup and takes him out and is either forcibly exiled in some kind of court scenario or runs for her life with Nala trying to tear out her gizzard.  (Maybe explaining why Vitani was so interested in taking on Nala in the big battle?) After a time, when the lands are in full bloom, Nala has another litter with Kiara and Kopa, Kiara being born first and thus getting the whole 'Crown Princess' treatment while Kopa gets to kind of play the spunky back-up and kind of being play-jealous at her being a 'Spoiled Brat'. img169.imageshack.us/img169/5504/kopakiara.jpg Like so. The fact Zira murdered Simba and Nala's first cub can be the great 'Dark Secret' of the Pridelands, as I pointed out in my email to you, Zira. It could make the cubs and anyone else not in the know wonder just why certain things are forbidden, why they get certain looks sometimes, etc. I do agree there were a lot of plot holes in the movie and they can be patched up, or altered through RP. I'm all for working the details out ICly and seeing how the ball rolls, naturally. I also believe that early on we should focus on the dualism of the MUCK, filling out the Pridelands and Outlands and their various denizens both leonine and not. I don't mean to say that I want other players who might want to have prides get told 'Hahaha, no!' or anything like that but I think it'd be a good idea if we set up a base between the two FC factions and get all that rolling before we let distractions like 48 other Prides and their attatched lands become scattered about the grid. (Yeah, that was the line! I remembered it was Sarafina saying something to Kiara for one scene.) |
|
|
|
Post by Sinyaa | Zira on Mar 8, 2010 8:27:31 GMT -5
I also believe that early on we should focus on the dualism of the MUCK, filling out the Pridelands and Outlands and their various denizens both leonine and not. I don't mean to say that I want other players who might want to have prides get told 'Hahaha, no!' or anything like that but I think it'd be a good idea if we set up a base between the two FC factions and get all that rolling before we let distractions like 48 other Prides and their attatched lands become scattered about the grid. I definitely agree with this. While I certainly don't think we should restrict a 3rd (or 4th, should we get that large) pride from eventually being created by an active, driven player, I think to start with, we should focus on getting the main canon groups -- primarily the Pridelands and Outlands, but also the Graveyard -- balanced and in motion before we pull our focus elsewhere. After all, we are trying to be a 'true' TLK MUCK here. |
|
|
|
Post by Kopa on Mar 8, 2010 8:36:42 GMT -5
I also believe that early on we should focus on the dualism of the MUCK, filling out the Pridelands and Outlands and their various denizens both leonine and not. I don't mean to say that I want other players who might want to have prides get told 'Hahaha, no!' or anything like that but I think it'd be a good idea if we set up a base between the two FC factions and get all that rolling before we let distractions like 48 other Prides and their attatched lands become scattered about the grid. I definitely agree with this. While I certainly don't think we should restrict a 3rd (or 4th, should we get that large) pride from eventually being created by an active, driven player, I think to start with, we should focus on getting the main canon groups -- primarily the Pridelands and Outlands, but also the Graveyard -- balanced and in motion before we pull our focus elsewhere. After all, we are trying to be a 'true' TLK MUCK here. Exactly, and getting bogged down in prides and other factions will have us running into the same problems that other TLK-based MU* have had. Characters scattered, not enough to focus on any one plot, FCs increasingly marginalized, and so on. |
|
|
|
Post by Shani on Mar 8, 2010 21:00:06 GMT -5
See, now I never felt that line really sounded like Sarafina, but it must just be me. Great, great ideas! I love, love, love the discussions. I was thinking of allowing one other pride besides the Pridelanders and Outsiders, to give another option to players. We definitely need the Graveyard... even the gorge, desert and jungle should be included. I also have a question for everyone: MUCK website, yea or nay? I would think that this forum would work better than a webpage, but I wonder what youall think? |
|
|
|
Post by Shani on Mar 8, 2010 21:25:49 GMT -5
Naturally, this all depends on who plays what characters and what they want to do with them. This pretty much sums up my thoughts entirely. As for Kovu/Vitani's father (since they more or less appear to be the same age), when I last played Zira, I had them as having a different father than Scar...but the TLK movies have never been very good with naming baby daddies (*cough*Nala*cough* >D). I also tend to agree with the fan-assumed idea of Zira having killed Kopa -- though, as we appear to have a Kopa, Now this is something that has yet to be decided on about Kopa being Kiara's brother. Kopa himself has yet to mention whether or not he is or isn't her brother and I don't wish to presume things or to offend anyone, so will he or won't he be Kiara's brother? |
|
|
|
Post by Kopa on Mar 8, 2010 22:13:50 GMT -5
This pretty much sums up my thoughts entirely. As for Kovu/Vitani's father (since they more or less appear to be the same age), when I last played Zira, I had them as having a different father than Scar...but the TLK movies have never been very good with naming baby daddies (*cough*Nala*cough* >D). I also tend to agree with the fan-assumed idea of Zira having killed Kopa -- though, as we appear to have a Kopa, Now this is something that has yet to be decided on about Kopa being Kiara's brother. Kopa himself has yet to mention whether or not he is or isn't her brother and I don't wish to presume things or to offend anyone, so will he or won't he be Kiara's brother? Well, as I mentioned to Zira, I figure he'd probably be her younger brother from the same litter, thus having Kiara keep the whole 'Crown Princess' title and such. Of course, if you guys would rather have him be the first-born we can do that, too, I just felt that having it that way makes it too much like TLK 1. As for a website, I say 'yes' if only for early advertisement. |
|
(Maybe explaining why Vitani was so interested in taking on Nala in the big battle?) After a time, when the lands are in full bloom, Nala has another litter with Kiara and Kopa, Kiara being born first and thus getting the whole 'Crown Princess' treatment while Kopa gets to kind of play the spunky back-up and kind of being play-jealous at her being a 'Spoiled Brat'.