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Post by Shani on Mar 18, 2010 19:44:41 GMT -5
I don't mind which name is used, really. My philosophy is what you all want, that's good enough for me.
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Post by Kibibi on Mar 19, 2010 2:41:05 GMT -5
I like Shinda's idea of keeping the majority-accepted Uru for Ahadi's queen and using Akase for Mohatu's otherwise-unnamed queen. Two birds, one stone. Ooh, I agree with this! Keeps Uru in her canonical place, but it's also a nod to the fanfiction. And it solves the Mohatu mate problem.
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Post by Kibibi on Mar 20, 2010 14:49:10 GMT -5
Okay, so I think I'm understanding the consensus on everything except for whether it was Ahadi or Uru that was the leader. Now, I'm a stickler for canon, but I actually favor Uru. In the book from that time period, Uru is absent, like I said before, and Ahadi is running things. And though they call him the lion king in it, he just doesn't seem to be good at the job. Also Taka/Scar is a little overactive at that point, which makes me wonder if he was trying stuff then because Uru wasn't around. But I don't want to enforce my opinion on that, and not much has been said yet on the subject here.
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Post by Kopa on Mar 20, 2010 14:53:31 GMT -5
Okay, so I think I'm understanding the consensus on everything except for whether it was Ahadi or Uru that was the leader. Now, I'm a stickler for canon, but I actually favor Uru. In the book from that time period, Uru is absent, like I said before, and Ahadi is running things. And though they call him the lion king in it, he just doesn't seem to be good at the job. Also Taka/Scar is a little overactive at that point, which makes me wonder if he was trying stuff then because Uru wasn't around. But I don't want to enforce my opinion on that, and not much has been said yet on the subject here. Well, if we're going by the theory that Ahadi was a rogue adopted by Mohatu because he married Uru then technically the 'bloodline' part of rulership would be with her. It's always possible that while Ahadi was indeed Lion King that Uru had a lot of power and control as queen. As for Taka/Scar acting up and nothing Ahadi does working, well, don't forget that's through the lens of the story and that it's concentrated on certain characters so Ahadi and his failures are just enablers to keep the story moving onto who it's focused on. We don't know Ahadi's plans were ALWAYS going wrong. It might just've been a bad day. Of course, Ahadi does ask Rafiki to teach him at the end of the 'Tale of Two Brothers' so it's possible that he realized he wasn't doing a good job and with Uru gone he needed to learn how to rule on his own in case she ever had to leave again.
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Post by Kibibi on Mar 20, 2010 15:45:48 GMT -5
Oh, it's definately possible and probable that Ahadi's ability to rule improved after that point. But you'd think that anyone raised by Mohatu would be a fantastic ruler from the beginning; Mohatu's supposed to have been the Best King Ever, after all.
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Post by Kopa on Mar 20, 2010 15:51:44 GMT -5
Oh, it's definately possible and probable that Ahadi's ability to rule improved after that point. But you'd think that anyone raised by Mohatu would be a fantastic ruler from the beginning; Mohatu's supposed to have been the Best King Ever, after all. Yeah, it makes a lot more sense that Uru was Mohatu's child and that Ahadi was married into the kingdom and had to learn how to rule properly. It also makes for great stories Rafiki or Kibibi can tell curious cubs.
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Post by Shani on Mar 20, 2010 19:58:50 GMT -5
Power to the Lion Queen! LOL!! It is very possible that Mohatu had only a daughter, who was the heir, then she and her mate had two sons, and their sons had sons and maybe daughters.
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Najisi
Cub
I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now.
Posts: 6
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Post by Najisi on Mar 20, 2010 20:49:22 GMT -5
So I've been thinking...doing that dangerous thing I do when I'm bored...and came across a few things that were a little fuzzy when it comes to family trees where Zira, Scar, and children are concerned.
In the movie, Simba's Pride, when Zira first confronts Simba, the dialogue is what leaves me pondering.
Simba: "I banished you from the Pridelands, you and your young cub. Get out."
( I would think that means just Nuka, since 'cub' is not plural. )
Zira: "Ooh, haven't you met my son, Kovu? He was hand chosen by Scar to follow in his pawprints and become King." ( So is she implying that Simba has yet to met Kovu until now? Simba does seem a bit surprised. Secondly, if Kovu is her son, but not the son of Scar as later mentioned in the movie, who is the father and why would Scar 'handpick' a cub that isn't his own? But wait, it gets more confusing...)
Zira: "Kovu was the last born before you exiled us to the Outlands, where we have little food, less water..."
(So Kovu WAS born right before Simba returned, defeated Scar, and exiled Zira and the outlanders? )
Then, skip ahead-skip ahead, we have a remark from Nuka that continues to leave me scratching my head.
Nuka: "Kovu, Kovu, Kovu...Scar wasn't even his father, he just took him in."
(So...is Kovu even Zira's biological son? If so, who's the father? If not...who's his parents? Apparently he was born at the end of Scar's reign though in order to be 'handpicked'. Anyhow, there's something to mull over. And possibly, I'm just trying to look to deep into things. Hehe. )
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Post by Kopa on Mar 20, 2010 20:55:26 GMT -5
So I've been thinking...doing that dangerous thing I do when I'm bored...and came across a few things that were a little fuzzy when it comes to family trees where Zira, Scar, and children are concerned. In the movie, Simba's Pride, when Zira first confronts Simba, the dialogue is what leaves me pondering. Simba: "I banished you from the Pridelands, you and your young cub. Get out." ( I would think that means just Nuka, since 'cub' is not plural. ) Zira: "Ooh, haven't you met my son, Kovu? He was hand chosen by Scar to follow in his pawprints and become King." ( So is she implying that Simba has yet to met Kovu until now? Simba does seem a bit surprised. Secondly, if Kovu is her son, but not the son of Scar as later mentioned in the movie, who is the father and why would Scar 'handpick' a cub that isn't his own? But wait, it gets more confusing...) Zira: "Kovu was the last born before you exiled us to the Outlands, where we have little food, less water..." (So Kovu WAS born right before Simba returned, defeated Scar, and exiled Zira and the outlanders? ) Then, skip ahead-skip ahead, we have a remark from Nuka that continues to leave me scratching my head. Nuka: "Kovu, Kovu, Kovu...Scar wasn't even his father, he just took him in." (So...is Kovu even Zira's biological son? If so, who's the father? If not...who's his parents? Apparently he was born at the end of Scar's reign though in order to be 'handpicked'. Anyhow, there's something to mull over. And possibly, I'm just trying to look to deep into things. Hehe. ) Yeah, we're debating those very questions in the 'Interested in a TLK MUCK' thread right now, actually. We're playing with several possibilities and you're welcome to chime in, naturally.
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Post by Shani on Mar 20, 2010 21:12:02 GMT -5
So I've been thinking...doing that dangerous thing I do when I'm bored...and came across a few things that were a little fuzzy when it comes to family trees where Zira, Scar, and children are concerned. In the movie, Simba's Pride, when Zira first confronts Simba, the dialogue is what leaves me pondering. Simba: "I banished you from the Pridelands, you and your young cub. Get out." ( I would think that means just Nuka, since 'cub' is not plural. ) Simba was refering to Kovu, who was there with her. Good question. Whether or not Simba knew of their existence is anyone's guess. Yes, Kovu was supposedly born right before Simba's fateful return. As to why he exiled them, no one really can say for sure. I myself like to think of Kovu as Zira's biological son and Scar's son as well.. but that is very unDisney like. So, whoever is his father, like who's Nala's father is anyone's guess. I do like the answer that Zira's player here has used in the past.
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Post by Kibibi on Mar 21, 2010 0:39:03 GMT -5
Uh-oh, I think that my thread's been dragged into recent history. Ah, but that's okay; I think I've got a consensus on all the main points I was wondering about. I'm editing my first post to include what the answers seem to be to all of my initial questions; if begged I might write up a more 'put together' outline for everyone's easier reference. Of course, it's all still up for debate until the muck opens officially, if not longer.
I think that what TLK2 says about Kovu is that he was born just before the showdown with Scar; that Simba know of his existence, but only as Zira's cub and not his name or his 'choseness'; and of course that Scar wasn't his father. Of course, what the canon is for that doesn't really matter as we're feeling free to modify everything post TLK. These details for our purposes should be decided by whoever plays Kovu.
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Najisi
Cub
I stopped fighting my inner demons. We're on the same side now.
Posts: 6
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Post by Najisi on Mar 24, 2010 4:42:56 GMT -5
With all the discussions that have been going on, a late night of browsing on You Tube led me to running into this take on Scar, how he got his namesake and how he met Zira and the hyenas. I rather enjoyed it and liked the concept perspective. So from my boredom, I give you something to look at in yours. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N7FVSet6Jc&feature=related
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