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Post by Kopa on Mar 16, 2010 11:20:52 GMT -5
I like the idea as well! And who knows, maybe Vitani will be more dedicated to the job than Kovu was. ;D I feel like we're taking TLK1 as canon but making our own spin on an AU TLK2, and that's just fine by me...certainly makes things interesting. That seems to be the general feel. Of course, that's half the fun and it's much better for players when they aren't 'slaved' to certain expectations from a pre-existing plot after all. (E.G. Sorry, Kopa time for you to die/vanish or Kiara, you've GOT to wind up with Kovu.) I was thinking that if we're going with the Chaka-killed-by-Zira plot that the sequence of events might go something like this timeline-wise: 1. End of TLK/Chaka born 2. Kopa and Kiara born/Chaka 'Young Simba' Age 3. Kopa and Kiara 'Young Simba' Age/Chaka Adolescent or Nearly-So. 4. Chaka killed by Zira/Zira & Outlanders exiled. 5. Official start of IC timeline/MUCK opening. That way, when we do the opening RP if Kopa's there with Chaka when he's attacked it gives him a reason to survive if Chaka's old enough to at least give Zira some trouble. If Kopa bites Zira's ear maybe she turns to deal with the cub but Chaka tackles her and tells Kopa to run and we roll from there? Naturally, that's a really rough outline, Nuka, Vitani and Kovu's births all fit in there as well.
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Post by Shani on Mar 16, 2010 20:24:16 GMT -5
We can make TLK II the way it SHOULD have been made.
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Post by Kibibi on Mar 20, 2010 15:05:50 GMT -5
That seems workable Kopa, aside from two things:
If we like the idea of Scar being Kovu and Vitani's father, then they have to have been concieved before Scar's death, which means they'd be older than any cubs belonging to Simba and Nala. In the events you listed, that would make them older than Chaka, and therefore much older than Kiara and Kopa. Of course, they could have a different father too, which would solve that problem.
The second issue is that in order to have been chosen by Scar to succeed him, Kovu would have had to have been born before Scar died. Of course, that's a relatively minor detail that we can just throw out, but I'm just sayin'...
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Post by Kopa on Mar 20, 2010 15:09:49 GMT -5
That seems workable Kopa, aside from two things: If we like the idea of Scar being Kovu and Vitani's father, then they have to have been concieved before Scar's death, which means they'd be older than any cubs belonging to Simba and Nala. In the events you listed, that would make them older than Chaka, and therefore much older than Kiara and Kopa. Of course, they could have a different father too, which would solve that problem. The second issue is that in order to have been chosen by Scar to succeed him, Kovu would have had to have been born before Scar died. Of course, that's a relatively minor detail that we can just throw out, but I'm just sayin'... Very good points, Kibibi. Well, we could always say that Chaka, Kopa and Kiara were all one litter and pretty much keep everything else. Zira could've attacked Chaka and Kopa and wounded Chaka enough to be fatal, with Kopa giving her that ear-notch in turn. It's always possible that Zazu showed up and Zira knew that meant Simba was on his way and left killing Kopa unfinished. Whatever works best timeline-wise.
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Post by Sinyaa | Zira on Mar 20, 2010 17:25:11 GMT -5
That seems workable Kopa, aside from two things: If we like the idea of Scar being Kovu and Vitani's father, then they have to have been concieved before Scar's death, which means they'd be older than any cubs belonging to Simba and Nala. In the events you listed, that would make them older than Chaka, and therefore much older than Kiara and Kopa. Of course, they could have a different father too, which would solve that problem. The second issue is that in order to have been chosen by Scar to succeed him, Kovu would have had to have been born before Scar died. Of course, that's a relatively minor detail that we can just throw out, but I'm just sayin'... I actually don't like the idea of Kovu and Vitani being Scar's kids. >.> I'm planning on asking Kovu and Vitani's players their opinions on the matter too, of course, but just figured I'd throw that out there. Which also kinda makes the 'chosen by Scar' bit kinda iffy, so yeah. I always thought the end-of-TLK1 cub was not the same cub as beginning-of-TLK2 cub, so IMHO that cub is Chaka to fit in with our storyline...and if we avoid having Kovu and Vitani being Scar's, then there are no issues with the proposed timeline (which seems to be more or less what everyone agrees upon for a starting point).
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Post by Shenzi on Mar 20, 2010 18:03:51 GMT -5
I always liked the idea of Vitani, Kovu and Nuka being Scar's children, but I knew that only Nuka probably was. It's stated that Kovu is not and Vitani is about the same age as Kiara throughout the film, and since Kiara was conceived after Scar's death, that would've made, in my theoretical opinion, Vitani conceived afterward as well.
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Post by Kopa on Mar 20, 2010 18:10:52 GMT -5
I always liked the idea of Vitani, Kovu and Nuka being Scar's children, but I knew that only Nuka probably was. It's stated that Kovu is not and Vitani is about the same age as Kiara throughout the film, and since Kiara was conceived after Scar's death, that would've made, in my theoretical opinion, Vitani conceived afterward as well. It's hard to work into the timeline, though. In TLK II it seems to be alluded to that if Kiara was born after the Pridelands regenerated, which could've taken months. That only Nuka was old enough to be Scar's child. Possibly Vitani, too, if Nuka was born earlier in Scar's reign. Kovu's the big problem, though, unless Zira was pregnant with both he and Vitani -right- when Simba came back and Nala was pregnant from the 'Can You Feel the Love Tonight' scene with Kiara it's kinda wonky if you take it all into account. Only way I can see the Nuka, Vitani, Kovu thing working if they're all Scar's kids would be this. 1: Nuka born 2: Zira pregnant with Kovu and Vitani (Nuka young Simba age?) 3: Nala pregnant with Chaka, Kopa and Kiara (from jungle tryst) 4: Simba returns, defeats Scar. 5: Pridelands regenerate and Kovu, Vitani, Chaka, Kopa and Kiara are born. (Month apart, perhaps?) 6: Zira kills Chaka, Outlanders exiled. (All cubs Young Simba/Nala Age.) 7. Start of MUCK timeline.
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Post by Sinyaa | Zira on Mar 20, 2010 19:42:59 GMT -5
That timeline seems way too much more complicated than your original timeline, Kopa. XD I can suspend my canon following enough to pretend to allow for a second cub alongside Kiara at the start of TLK2, but I have a hard time believing Nala was pregnant with all 3 cubs at once. XD
Plus, I still think Kovu and Vitani weren't Scar's. So all this debate and working-around is only necessary if we decide they absolutely must be Scar's cubs. I think if we get caught up in all these tiny details, we're never going to come to a consensus and actually get the real MUCK plot underway. XD So why not keep it as simple as we possibly can?
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Post by Shani on Mar 20, 2010 19:44:02 GMT -5
I always liked the idea of Vitani, Kovu and Nuka being Scar's children, but I knew that only Nuka probably was. It's stated that Kovu is not and Vitani is about the same age as Kiara throughout the film, and since Kiara was conceived after Scar's death, that would've made, in my theoretical opinion, Vitani conceived afterward as well. It's hard to work into the timeline, though. In TLK II it seems to be alluded to that if Kiara was born after the Pridelands regenerated, which could've taken months. That only Nuka was old enough to be Scar's child. Possibly Vitani, too, if Nuka was born earlier in Scar's reign. Kovu's the big problem, though, unless Zira was pregnant with both he and Vitani -right- when Simba came back and Nala was pregnant from the 'Can You Feel the Love Tonight' scene with Kiara it's kinda wonky if you take it all into account. Only way I can see the Nuka, Vitani, Kovu thing working if they're all Scar's kids would be this. 1: Nuka born 2: Zira pregnant with Kovu and Vitani (Nuka young Simba age?) 3: Nala pregnant with Chaka, Kopa and Kiara (from jungle tryst) 4: Simba returns, defeats Scar. 5: Pridelands regenerate and Kovu, Vitani, Chaka, Kopa and Kiara are born. (Month apart, perhaps?) 6: Zira kills Chaka, Outlanders exiled. (All cubs Young Simba/Nala Age.) 7. Start of MUCK timeline. If anyone has seen the deleted scenes, Nuka and Vitani were spying and ran back to tell Zira that Simba's new cub was a girl... and Kovu was in the scene as well. Which tells me that all three, Nuka, Vitani and Kovu were born before Kiara.
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Post by Kopa on Mar 20, 2010 19:52:58 GMT -5
That timeline seems way too much more complicated than your original timeline, Kopa. XD I can suspend my canon following enough to pretend to allow for a second cub alongside Kiara at the start of TLK2, but I have a hard time believing Nala was pregnant with all 3 cubs at once. XD Plus, I still think Kovu and Vitani weren't Scar's. So all this debate and working-around is only necessary if we decide they absolutely must be Scar's cubs. I think if we get caught up in all these tiny details, we're never going to come to a consensus and actually get the real MUCK plot underway. XD So why not keep it as simple as we possibly can? Well, bringing RL into it, the average litter of a lion is 2-6 cubs, I believe. So 3 is only one above the lowest average. Yes, I know that we're not going by real life here, but I figured I'd just point that out. I don't really care of Kovu and Vitani are Scar's or not, it seems to fit things better if they aren't if you ask me, since if they are it brings up all sorts of questions and not just in terms of timeline. If Nuka is Scar's and Vitani and Kovu are not then we'll need to answer who their father is and what part he's going to play, if any in the story.
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Post by Sinyaa | Zira on Mar 20, 2010 20:00:22 GMT -5
I don't really care of Kovu and Vitani are Scar's or not, it seems to fit things better if they aren't if you ask me, since if they are it brings up all sorts of questions and not just in terms of timeline. If Nuka is Scar's and Vitani and Kovu are not then we'll need to answer who their father is and what part he's going to play, if any in the story. Well, if I may speak personally from my past experience playing Zira, when I RPed her on Endless Round and then Sunrise, Kovu and Vitani's father was actually a rogue lion played by my mate, Sharvi (with plenty of background story for anyone who's interested in hearing it all ). The character itself was created long before we even met, much less planned TLK RP, but as you can see from the picture here, he makes a rather convincing Kovu daddy. Sharvi is joining this MUCK as well, so if there were no objections from those involved with the situation, we were going to adapt the already-established background to this MUCK incarnation as well.
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Post by Kopa on Mar 20, 2010 20:06:22 GMT -5
I don't really care of Kovu and Vitani are Scar's or not, it seems to fit things better if they aren't if you ask me, since if they are it brings up all sorts of questions and not just in terms of timeline. If Nuka is Scar's and Vitani and Kovu are not then we'll need to answer who their father is and what part he's going to play, if any in the story. Well, if I may speak personally from my past experience playing Zira, when I RPed her on Endless Round and then Sunrise, Kovu and Vitani's father was actually a rogue lion played by my mate, Sharvi (with plenty of background story for anyone who's interested in hearing it all ). The character itself was created long before we even met, much less planned TLK RP, but as you can see from the picture here, he makes a rather convincing Kovu daddy. Sharvi is joining this MUCK as well, so if there were no objections from those involved with the situation, we were going to adapt the already-established background to this MUCK incarnation as well. Oh? I wasn't aware of that, that sounds interesting and might have some real bearing on the situation if it's played out. Really, we can throw out any theories we want, I don't think we're really going to be able to answer anything until we know what Vitani and Kovu's players want.
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Post by Sinyaa | Zira on Mar 20, 2010 20:10:47 GMT -5
Well, if I may speak personally from my past experience playing Zira, when I RPed her on Endless Round and then Sunrise, Kovu and Vitani's father was actually a rogue lion played by my mate, Sharvi (with plenty of background story for anyone who's interested in hearing it all ). The character itself was created long before we even met, much less planned TLK RP, but as you can see from the picture here, he makes a rather convincing Kovu daddy. Sharvi is joining this MUCK as well, so if there were no objections from those involved with the situation, we were going to adapt the already-established background to this MUCK incarnation as well. Oh? I wasn't aware of that, that sounds interesting and might have some real bearing on the situation if it's played out. Really, we can throw out any theories we want, I don't think we're really going to be able to answer anything until we know what Vitani and Kovu's players want. Of course! I've already discussed it with the only Kovu applicant so far, who didn't mind either way, but as I mentioned before, it will definitely be something the cubs' players have a say in. Just figured I'd mention how I'd played it before, as an idea. :3
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Post by Shani on Mar 20, 2010 20:47:01 GMT -5
It's a really good idea. I gotta confess that a part of would love to have Kovu, Vitani and Nuka as Scar's prodigy... The way Zira acted, it always seemed to me that she'd never let another lion anywhere near her after she lost Scar.
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Post by Kibibi on Mar 20, 2010 23:25:02 GMT -5
Well, there's always the chance that Zira had Nuka, saw that he was obviously defective, and figured she'd have to try a different father for her next litter... Just a random theory...
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